Federal Radar Pathfinder Program

Beyond the Buzz (episode 11) - Federal Radar Pathfinder Program  

May 13, 2025 

Victor Meza, Everett Dunnick, Michael Robbins 

0:00 

Victor 

Welcome everybody to the 11th episode of Beyond the Buzz hosted here at The HIVE in Grand Forks, North Dakota. It's a part of the Northern Plains UAS Test Site just to help our industry get a more basic knowledge of what we do and how we can help our nation get UAS into national airspace. Today we'll be talking a little bit about our FAA radar data Pathfinder program and how it can have implications on a national scale. I'm joined by Everett Dunick here at the Northern Plains UAS Test Site and Mr. Michael Robbins from AUVSI. I'll take a moment for you to kind of introduce yourself, give a little bit of background. So Mike, would you like to go first? 

0:55 

Michael 

Yeah, great. Thanks so much. I'm honored to lead AUVSI, the Association for Uncrewed Vehicle Systems International. We are the industry trade association for the autonomy industry. We represent companies in the air, ground, and maritime domains, both commercial and defense. 

I have been with AUVSI for about five years. I've been CEO for just over a year. Prior to that, I was doing consulting primarily in the technology, aviation, and defense space. I worked previously at a trade association in the commercial aviation space. I spent 10 years on Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C. as a chief of staff to a member of Congress, and throughout much of that time have been in the U.S. Navy Reserve. 

So, a mix of government, military, commercial, and defense work, and absolutely loving leading AUVSI. It's a great organization. It's been around for 53 years, has evolved a number of times throughout its history, and right now is absolutely in the news, on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon every day, at the FAA, working on solving points of friction for our members and trying to move the industry forward. It's a lot of fun. 

2:14 

Victor 

Thank you. 

Everett 

Hey, good morning everybody. Everett Dunnick. I am Director of Special Programs at the Northern Plains UAS Test Site. I've been on staff here in North Dakota for the test site for almost four years, coming up in August. 

Prior to that, about eight years as a program manager with General Atomics and General Atomics Aeronautical working on either hypersonic production or the Block 50 Ground Control Station for MQ-9. Probably most relevant to this organization, I was the lead for the Flight Test and Training Center. So when General Atomics went to source and site an OEM training facility here in Grand Forks, North Dakota, I led the charge from Poway up here, set up shop, and the operation is still in business to this day, flying MQ-9s in the pattern out at Grand Forks AFB/Red River on a daily basis. 

Prior to that, I had about 27 years of active duty in the United States Marine Corps doing infantry, reconnaissance, special operations, and the like. A lot of interaction with my aviation counterparts, a lot of interest in the way unmanned aircraft in particular changed the dynamic for the intelligence and reconnaissance community. 

Other than that, I just want to say thank you to Michael. I'm a big fan of AUVSI and the work that you guys have done in the last couple years especially. I love the venue. I am looking forward to seeing everybody in Houston, and thank you for all that you do for us both in the Beltway and outside. 

3:51 

Michael 

Thank you. I'm honored to be here, and I look forward to the conversation. 

Victor 

So before we get into a little bit about radar data, AUVSI sent kind of a powerful message to the National Senate about ATC modernization. Mike, can you tell us a little bit more? Why now? Why is this such an urgent matter? 

4:14 

Michael 

Yeah, thank you for that question. There are a couple of reasons why now. 

First and foremost, it's because it should have been decades ago. As we point out in our letter, as I've said in speeches and testimony on Capitol Hill, we're really operating with an air traffic system and broader National Airspace System, the NAS, that is decades past its intended lifespan. 

That comes with consequences. It means we're not upgrading to newer technology that's going to enhance aviation safety. It means we're not implementing technology that's helping to build the future NAS to accommodate more traffic and new types of entrants: commercial space, drones, high-altitude and low-altitude drones, advanced air mobility, and other new entrants that are going to be coming down the road here soon. 

It also means that we're spending a lot of money, often billions of dollars a year, putting duct tape—billion-dollar duct tape—on systems that were built for a different era of aviation. 

You take all of that knowledge, which is something we've known for a while, and then you couple that with the recent incidents that have occurred in the NAS, including right outside my window on the Potomac River where 68 lives were tragically lost in an accident that should not have happened in 2025. It's unacceptable that an air collision occurred between a commercial aircraft and an Army helicopter in 2025 when there are absolutely layers of technology that should have prevented that from happening. 

Take that, then take the recent outages at Newark, the fire at Chicago Center, the NOTAM outages from a few years ago. All of these are building up into a narrative that this system is badly broken. 

Rather than continuing to invest in just repairing what is an outdated system, we really need to invest in modernizing the system. Now, that's easier said than done because you can't just turn the current system off and turn a new system on. But with a strong dollar investment, a coherent strategic plan, and the will to execute and stay committed, that will put the U.S. on a very different path than the one we're on right now. 

That's what we're advocating for. That's what we're up on the Hill talking to the Senate and the House about. That's where we've been at FAA and DOT talking about. There are going to be hearings on that today, tomorrow, and Thursday on Capitol Hill. We've submitted testimony to those hearings as well. 

Part of this conversation is because we all fly and we all want a safer airspace, but also because the technology that's in place now will ultimately limit the broader aviation spectrum from benefiting from the true benefits of 21st-century aviation. That means other countries will race ahead of us. 

The U.S. has always led the world in aviation since the Wright brothers had that first flight. We are very much at risk of losing our world lead right now because we're falling behind on advanced aviation. One element of that, by no means the only one, but certainly one, is our aging air traffic infrastructure. 

7:57 

Victor 

Yeah, it's a very powerful message. Not only do we have to update these systems for manned aviation, but the next step is also looking into unmanned aviation. Now that's becoming an up-and-coming thing. 

Everett, we'll kind of transfer over to you here. The Northern Plains UAS Test Site's program has been trying to work on increasing the safety aspect in getting drones into the National Airspace System and getting that clear picture of manned aviation for safe flight. 

How was Vantis working with the FAA to get radar data access? Can you kind of give an overview of the journey and how the program came to be? 

8:47 

Everett 

Sure. Thanks for the question. 

I'm sure this venue gets quite a bit of material about Vantis and the updates for the participants because the Northern Plains is putting on the show and we love to talk about our star child. 

This is the 2019 initiative to develop a statewide beyond visual line of sight network within the state. A series of connections made with our key partners and our systems engineer and integrator, Thales, to create a fabric of surveillance systems and command and control systems that would allow unmanned aircraft to fly in the National Airspace System for commercial, public, or other purposes. 

We started with key site installation in western North Dakota and have extended each year our range in terms of surveillance and capacity to handle unmanned aircraft. We keep pushing the envelope in terms of what the network is capable of. 

But in the back of our minds, we always understood that the state of North Dakota really wasn't interested in creating surveillance capacity in every square inch of the airspace over the state. The most obvious way to approach scaling was through the utilization of federal resources and federal assets that were already in place, already being used for similar purposes by the air traffic control system to monitor and manage the flow of manned aviation assets for commercial and public purposes. 

So we approached the FAA through application at a very early stage as we started talking about Vantis. We started talking about the utility of how federal radar data could be used for similar purposes in terms of building out our surveillance volumes. 

It was several years after the system had been developed and matured to a level that we were responded to by the FAA, and we opened a dialogue with them about the way we would approach a Pathfinder program. 

This was very much an initiative and partnership by the FAA to reach out to us as, again, a good partner—someone that could approach the problem and find the right balance between the potential utility of the surveillance assets they had in place for manned aviation and the obvious security implications of releasing NAS radar data to the flying public through a selected entity. 

We offered a couple of different things in terms of a partnership as a government institution, and we were very much in line in terms of our approach on the security measures and the way we valued the technological capabilities that the FAA was using and that the interagency was interested in keeping intact. 

That has proved very fruitful in terms of the dialogue that we've had with them and the development steps that we've gone through with them. 

Again, I just stress the fact that what we're talking about here is a Pathfinder. We're taking it one step at a time and figuring out the answers to the problem sets as we approach them. 

That answer the question? 

12:32 

Victor 

Yeah, pretty good. Yep. Thank you. Appreciate that. 

Transitioning back to AUVSI, with this Pathfinder program, and in your comments, Mr. Robbins, you push for all ADS-B equipage and access to ground-based radar data for UAS. 

How does this radar data Pathfinder fit in AUVSI's broader strategy to help increase safety in the National Airspace System as drones start making their way into the airspace? 

13:14 

Michael 

Yeah, thank you so much for that question. 

It really comes down to the goal of getting to a zero-collision airspace, and that really should be the goal. It should have been the goal a long time ago. It definitely should be the goal now. 

As I said, the aircraft collision that occurred just outside my window over the Potomac is unacceptable in 2025 and one that should not have occurred. It would have been prevented had the Army helicopter had its ADS-B Out transponder on, alerting the exact location of that aircraft to both the air traffic tower and the commercial airplane. 

Similarly, we have a large number of aircraft that are operating in the NAS today that, for whatever reason, have not equipped with ADS-B. ADS-B is not required in all airspace, and it's not required of all aircraft. In certain airspace it is mandated, of course, and for certain aircraft types it is mandated, but there are large swaths of the U.S., including large portions over North Dakota, where ADS-B is not part of the current federal mandate. 

We believe that enhanced electronic conspicuity would significantly enhance safety for all users, both commercial aviation, business aviation, general aviation, balloons, paragliders, parachutists, and others, as well as the emerging autonomy industry—drones, other types of autonomous aircraft, advanced air mobility—because it gives situational awareness to the operator as to where every other aircraft in the airspace is. We don't currently have that. 

One of the outcomes of the Beyond Visual Line of Sight Aviation Rulemaking Committee that wrapped up its work more than three years ago now was that the drone industry said we will voluntarily equip with ADS-B In, which means we'll be able to receive ADS-B signals. The FAA doesn't want drones broadcasting out, but we'll receive them and therefore detect and see the other aircraft that are electronically conspicuous to us, then avoid those aircraft. 

You can't do that if we can't see an aircraft, and there are still a lot of aircraft that are not broadcasting. 

In addition to expanding ADS-B, there are other things we can do to help with that goal of universal conspicuity. One is incorporating low-cost, low-power portable conspicuity devices that are available on the market now for a couple hundred dollars. They can be held in someone's hand or put in their backpack if they're in a balloon or doing a parachute jump, or put in your pocket or on your aircraft if you're not equipping with full ADS-B. It broadcasts your location to other airspace users, which would be a huge step forward and something we're working with a number of aviation stakeholders on right now. 

Similarly, using anonymized ground-based radar data like you uniquely have access to in North Dakota through the Pathfinder program is another layer of safety by providing the operator, whether it's a drone operator, advanced air mobility, or another aircraft operator, with that same airspace awareness picture that there is an aircraft here. 

You don't need to know what the aircraft is. It doesn't matter if it's general aviation, another drone, or Air Force One. You just need to know where it is and what altitude it's at so that it can be avoided. 

We're at a stage today where the sophistication of drone operations is such that a drone will never, as long as it is able to detect through either the Pathfinder program's ground-based radar or electronic conspicuity, come near another aircraft because it will detect that with plenty of range and avoid it, either by an altitude adjustment, changing the route, landing if it's safe to land, or whatever the case may be is going to get out of the way. 

Another outcome of the ARC was that, as rules are written, the drone industry will take on that burden of right of way and give the right of way to the legacy aircraft if we can see it. But if we can't see it, it is a shared responsibility, and that is the way FAA rules are written. 

There's an assumption right now by a lot of legacy aircraft operators, particularly in general aviation, that they have the right of way over the drone, and that is not the case. It is a shared responsibility. 

That is really problematic because it can be very hard to spot a drone, and it's also problematic for the drone because if that other aircraft isn't operating with any kind of electronic conspicuity, the drone probably isn't going to be able to detect that airplane either. 

So, what we're working on with the Pathfinder program would be a huge step forward in providing all operators with knowledge of where other aircraft are to avoid them long before there's even any thought of a potential collision. 

The algorithms are super sophisticated and are going to avoid any kind of incident like that. 

It really does make sense. This is something we really appreciate the team in North Dakota working on for a long time. I know it's been really challenging to get here, but it does open the door, we hope, to this being expanded beyond North Dakota as well. 

I think that's really what industry is excited about: how can this become a model for nationwide deployment over time, hopefully soon, in a way that provides this really useful airspace awareness tool to all operators, but particularly to drone operators. 

19:59 

Victor 

Yeah, that's great. 

Just to kind of keep you talking, and I know we are interested in this question probably as much as the next person, but how is this FAA radar data, once this gets deployed, seen in industry as a whole? Is there excitement around it? 

20:22 

Michael 

Yeah, I think there is. You've got a lot of current operators ranging from small UAS operations all the way up to autonomy operators that are retrofitting existing aircraft like Cessna 208s and Caravans that want access to this data right now. They want to be able to plug this into their operation to give them that additional layer of airspace awareness because it really is safest to operate with multiple layers of airspace awareness technology. 

Right now, because of what we believe are probably some overblown national security concerns, in part because the data can be analyzed, as you're proving, it's very restrictive. I think industry is anxious to see the results from what you've got going with the Pathfinder program and then how those lessons learned can be extrapolated at scale throughout the country and deployed, hopefully with some degree of speed. 

I think AUVSI is a very anxious partner to help you with that. We've had a lot of conversations about this. How do we take the lessons learned, both from getting to where you're at—because I know it was very difficult, you guys had to fight hard for it and we appreciate that—what was your path, and how do we streamline that in the future? Then also, how do we begin deploying this at scale? Because it really is going to be a very useful tool to allow operations to begin to scale. 

22:10 

Victor 

Then, Ev, this is a huge thing for the state of North Dakota to get this radar data. Why is this important for North Dakota? 

22:26 

Everett 

Sure. I think Michael had a good characterization from the outside. 

For the state of North Dakota, as I mentioned previously, Vantis always looked at the scalability problem and understood federal resources were really crucial to getting the scale up into the order of magnitude necessary for full commercial integration across all different types of use cases we could imagine over those distances. A similar sentiment could be made about regional solutions per se. 

With that understanding, as we approached the feds, it's important that, from my perspective, we've been head down on this solution now for a couple years. We think in generalities about the way this would apply. We've looked most closely at the way we would come up with a network solution that was acceptable not just to the FAA but to the interagency. 

The sentiment that Michael shared about the risk associated with the release of the data is under very intense scrutiny right now for very obvious reasons because of all the activity we've seen overseas and in the news media with unmanned aircraft traffic that people are new to, uncomfortable with, or don't recognize. 

There's a lot of concern and consideration about the way radar data collected by the federal government is utilized, for what purposes, and who has access to it. Those are very natural security concerns. 

We've approached that as a partner to the FAA. We couldn't have done otherwise. We needed them to be in a position where they were interested in going forward on this path. 

They now have legislation under Section 905 that is going to expand on that theory of the utility of this data. I want to stress that, from their perspective, this is a theory. How it applies and what value that radar data has to unmanned operators is an open question that we're going to help find answers to. 

With that in mind, we appreciate the procedure being approached first, but we feel like we earned it in terms of the investment on the part of the state in the existing BVLOS network and the way we built our state facilities in partnership with Grand Sky Business Park, Grand Forks Air Force Base, and Grand Forks County. That allowed us to approach the FAA in a manner that was fully cognizant of the physical and cyber security controls that would have to be implemented. 

We designed from the outset with that in mind, as well as the standards for unmanned flight, because we knew security controls of this kind were probably in our future for some purpose, whether it was for a customer or to be compliant from the FAA standpoint. 

This is the realization of the state's heavy investment and dedication to finding ways to get our unmanned aircraft into operation beyond visual line of sight and using all that capability to help people's daily lives. 

25:48 

Michael 

Yeah. It's tremendous. North Dakota really has paved the way. 

25:53 

Victor 

Well, thank you for that. 

Ev, you're going to be moderating a panel at AUVSI Exponential. Can you tell us a little bit about who's on that panel and what topics you'll be covering about this subject? 

26:13 

Everett 

Sure. 

Leading the panel is Mario Verret. He is the Program Manager at AJR-22 for the Pathfinder project, a former Air Force officer who has been a true partner in this work, working very closely with us not just on the Pathfinder but basically blocking and tackling for us inside FAA Headquarters, as well as approaching the NDRB, the NAS Data Release Board Secretariat within the FAA, to help broker the package of information that's going to get set in front of that board of interagency partners and satisfy them in terms of the applicability for the system as well as all the security control measures. 

Our longtime Vantis partner, MITRE, is on stage with us as well. Jeff Bernick is the Program Manager supporting Vantis at MITRE. He'll provide valuable context on the evolution of this project over time, not just for Vantis but for others, and the interest that exists for us and within the FAA because they have the ability of seeing inside headquarters. 

Aaron Roesler is also going to be on stage. She's the Deputy Executive Director for the Northern Plains Test Site and part of the Vantis Executive Steering Committee. She's had a steady hand over the last couple years in terms of where the program is going and how it's developing. 

She and I have been literally tied at the hip working with state entities, federal entities, and on the project itself, getting the team oriented and tasks accomplished. It's been a very fruitful partnership. 

We love where we are right now. We're confident where we're going to be about a year from now. That cast of characters will be there to answer as many questions as we can, given the understanding that the Pathfinder is still a work in progress. We'll tell you what we know and where we're at. 

28:39 

Victor 

I'm looking forward to that discussion, especially having the FAA on board to talk about it and give their side of why they're pushing for this as well. 

How about on your side, Mr. Robbins? What are you looking forward to about this discussion? 

28:57 

Michael 

Well, first, we're less than a week away from Exponential, which, for those not tracking, is AUVSI's annual trade show and conference that we co-host with our partners, MDAA. It starts Monday, May 19, at the Houston Convention Center. 

It's four days of jam-packed programming. We've got multiple different policy tracks and technology tracks across all domains—air, ground, maritime, commercial, and defense. There will be 8,000 to 9,000 people. It's huge. It's awesome. Three full days of trade show exhibits as well, with hundreds of exhibitors displaying technology. 

There's a lot I'm excited about. 

The panel you're discussing is very compelling to a lot of operators currently operating in the National Airspace System, looking to operate soon, or looking to scale operations. I think you're going to find strong attendance because people want to see what this is. Is it real? If it is real, how do they get access to it, and how can they help? 

When the Pathfinder radar program is shown to be the success we all believe it will be, you're going to have a coalition of people, including AUVSI at the front of the line and many of our members right there with you, to build upon your success. 

I think you're going to find an active audience that's anxious to hear about how you got there, what current operations look like, what the future looks like, and what the future beyond North Dakota looks like as well. 

While your interest is obviously in North Dakota, there's no doubt that throughout all 50 states, and even internationally, there's interest in this program because it's unique. It hasn't been done before and holds great potential to unlock beyond visual line of sight operations. 

31:44 

Victor 

Awesome. Yeah. 

That panel will be on Thursday at 10:30. If you're already going to Exponential, please come visit, or you can visit the Northern Plains UAS Test Site at Booth 3414, and we can answer your questions there. 

I kind of want to do a little wrap-up here so we have time for questions. 

Mr. Robbins, if you can sum this up in one sentence, why is the radar data worth the effort? Why is it worth the struggle to get this to work? 

31:59 

Michael 

In one sentence, it comes down to airspace awareness and providing operators with awareness of where other operators in the NAS are so they can detect and avoid them, which is really hard to do right now if not all aircraft are electronically conspicuous. 

Victor 

Ev, do you have anything you want to wrap up? 

32:20 

Everett 

I think we could probably match on that point. Airspace awareness and the way we look at our National Airspace System is in the news for very good reason. It's on the cusp of very significant change. 

We think we're at the forefront in terms of the kinds of changes we imagine to fully leverage the utilization of unmanned and autonomous platforms. We want to see that future, and we think we're in a good position to do that with this Pathfinder program. 

Victor 

That's great. 

Thank you both again for your time here and for talking about such a monumental movement forward in aviation. 

I'd like to leave it up to those in the room or those online. Do you have any questions? If you're online, feel free to put your questions into the chat. 

It looks like we have a couple online. 

Our first one is: Could you help me understand the roles of AUVSI and MITRE and how they work with NPUASTS and the FAA? 

Do you want to take that one? 

33:41 

Everett 

Yeah. I'll defer to Mike on AUVSI's role because I think that's kind of his job. 

MITRE is a federally funded research and development center, a really huge organization that services the federal government in a variety of different ways. 

The Northern Plains Test Site has had a very strong relationship from the very beginning with the segment of MITRE that works directly with the FAA. Urban legend is that the FAA actually had to give them permission to work with the test sites. 

They've basically opened up the aperture for us in terms of the science and technology expertise they routinely provide to the FAA. We have access to that same expertise, and they've helped us tremendously. 

Victor 

Mike, do you want to give the AUVSI version of that question? What's your role in working with the Northern Plains UAS Test Site? 

34:42 

Michael 

Yeah. We are allies in trying to bring operations into reality and getting from beyond testing into allowing companies to truly get into full commercial operations across all the different mission types relevant to North Dakota, including long linear infrastructure inspection, public safety, first responder programs, drone delivery, medical delivery, logistics, infrastructure security, and more. 

All of these are happening now, and in some cases happening at scale. They're often limited by the regulatory framework, which is in part held back by the lack of airspace awareness. 

Working with Northern Plains, you guys are on the edge of doing a lot of unique operations. You've got small UAS, very large Group 5 UAS, and everything in between. 

We learn a lot from what you're doing in North Dakota. The state has really led the way with investment in infrastructure, forging relationships with industry and the FAA, and bringing the FAA in as a true partner. 

I think there's a lot other states can learn from North Dakota and a lot more that AUVSI and NPUASTS can continue to do together to move the industry forward. 

We really appreciate the ongoing engagement and collaborative relationship we have. 

Victor 

Thank you. We really appreciate that, and thank you for your support in showcasing some of our programs and the things we're working on. 

Question in the room. 

Audience 

Yeah. Ryan Steerson here. Great conversation with all of you. Great information. 

Mr. Robbins brought up a great point about expansion of the system throughout the NAS. 

Ev, when you look at North Dakota's experience in technology and security, with NDIT and what they do, what does that partnership with other states look like as expansion moves forward? What does that look like for radar data integration and your concept on that? 

37:25 

Everett 

Thanks for the question, Ryan. 

When you approach scalability, I won't sugarcoat it for the participants. The bar that the federal government has set—the FAA and its partner agencies—is pretty high. 

There may be a day where this type of information exchange is commonplace, but for the foreseeable future that bar is going to remain relatively high. 

Other entities interested in this level of scale for BVLOS operations are going to look at North Dakota and make some type of apples-to-apples comparison in terms of the investment required to access and utilize the data. 

It's just going to be more cost-effective to go to entities that have already figured this out rather than trying to build it from scratch. 

Candidly, the federal government would probably be more comfortable with a smaller number of highly skilled and qualified operators and data accessors than a much broader scale, at least in the near term. 

That lends itself toward a smaller number of qualified providers for that data that already have the security assurances the government is interested in. 

Did that answer your question? 

Victor 

Okay. We do have one more question online. 

What are some of the ways that traditional ATM industry players can get involved in support of these integration programs? 

Either of you? 

Michael 

Certainly start by joining us at Exponential next week and attending the Northern Plains UAS panel on Thursday at 10:30 a.m. Central Time. That's a great way to get started. 

Everett 

Part of me just wants to say, "Why don't you come to North Dakota and try flying in our airspace? We'll be happy to help you." 

There's nothing like actually pushing the envelope to push the envelope. 

Michael 

I've had the privilege of coming to North Dakota a couple times to the test site, and each time I'm blown away by the impressive operation you've built. It really is second to none. 

Everett 

Thank you. It's a team sport. We all get into it. 

Audience 

My take on that question was on the air traffic management side. How do they plug and play into Vantis or the federal radar data? 

So, to revise that question, when you look at ATM and what so many are doing in that space, how do they plug and play with the developments you're creating as repeatable and scalable? 

Everett 

Mike, did you want to take a crack at that one? I can offer a little insight. 

Michael 

That's definitely better for you. 

Everett 

I think we've been really careful to approach our services in a way that's very respectful of the job the air traffic control system has. They've already got a tough job with lots of challenges. 

We definitely didn't want to add anything to their existing burden. 

The services we deliver are not categorically the same work that air traffic control does. They're designed to enhance safety cases and put enhanced awareness and safety in the hands of the operators. 

This is very much about building the necessary infrastructure for safe, repeatable, and scalable operations to take place in lots of places. 

We think that fits well with existing air traffic management methodologies. 

It becomes more complicated the closer you get to high-density urban settings. That's probably the limit of what I'd be able to comment on. 

41:43 

Victor 

Any other questions in the room or online? 

Okay, sorry, I got one more. 

I've seen airports like EWR shut down due to lack of ATC. Are there any short-term and long-term solutions possible using UTM? 

42:20 

Michael 

I think using UTM is probably not a short-term solution. 

The short-term solutions the FAA is pursuing involve building more redundancy into its telecommunications networks to ensure they don't have the kinds of outages they've experienced at New York Center. That's the short-term patch. 

But the question opens up a much broader discussion we could do an entire webinar on regarding the future of UTM, or Uncrewed Traffic Management. 

Right now, UTM is deployed by some operators throughout the NAS, particularly in the North Texas area, where there's a federation of UTM providers and operators plugged into a federated network that they're testing with the FAA. They're showcasing how drones can avoid one another using strategic deconfliction software. 

In many ways, that's proving that advanced software-defined technology with sophisticated algorithms can do a great job of strategic deconfliction of air traffic. 

Right now it's focused on drones, but there's no reason to think that technology won't continue to scale into higher altitudes, more complex airspace, and other types of aircraft. 

We see the success of UTM as a sign that the technology is there. We now have to continue proving it out, showcasing the safety case, building comfort with the regulator, operators, and the broader aviation and aerospace community, and then thinking about how it expands into other types of airspace. 

There's no doubt UTM has been an early success, and the future of that type of strategic deconfliction software holds great promise for the future of air traffic control. 

Victor 

All right. Awesome. 

We'll probably end this webinar here before we get into another full webinar on that subject. 

Thank you everybody for your questions, and thank you again Mr. Robbins and Ev Dunnick for joining us today. It's been a wealth of knowledge. 

If you're going to AUVSI, we look forward to speaking with you there. If you have any more questions about this, feel free to contact us through our website, npuasts.com. 

Then you can join us right here next month, Tuesday, June 10, at 9:00 a.m. Central Time for our next Beyond the Buzz webinar.