A Conversation with Senator John Hoeven

Beyond the Buzz (episode 15) - A conversation with Senator John Hoeven 

September 10, 2025 

Trevor Woods: I’m Trevor Woods, the executive director for the Northern Plains UAS Test Site, and we’ve got a special edition here of Beyond the Buzz with Senator John Hoeven. I really appreciate your willingness to join us today. You’ve been a really big champion for unmanned aircraft systems in North Dakota for as long as I can remember, and I know there’s a lot more history there than most people realize. I really appreciate this opportunity to hear a little bit from you as an early and continuing leader in this space, and for helping position North Dakota as the premier place for unmanned systems. So thank you very much for joining us here today. 

Senator John Hoeven: Thank you, Trevor. Great to be with you. Really appreciate the invitation. 

Trevor Woods: Let’s start with a big, broad opening question. You’ve been a really strong advocate for this since even before you were a senator, when you were governor of North Dakota. What was the vision behind this? Can you take us back to what you saw in North Dakota and in the ecosystem that led you to say, “We’re going to do this. We’re going to be the place in the United States to champion the integration of unmanned systems”? 

Senator John Hoeven: Sure, happy to. Again, great to be with you. In 2005, that was the last round of the BRAC Commission. At that time, we had tankers at Grand Forks Air Force Base and we had F-16s. The Happy Hooligans at our Air Guard were great. I’d flown with them a number of times, and we did refueling missions with the tankers. It was awesome. But both those missions were slated to go away, and we had to decide what was next. We felt that by going into unmanned aviation, we would be looking to the future. 

We ended up with the Global Hawk mission at Grand Forks Air Force Base. At that time, it was the Predator mission for the MQ-9 with our Guard in Fargo. That got us thinking. I had set up a group headed by then-Adjutant General Mike Hogan called “Mind Military in North Dakota.” The whole point was to figure out how we could put some legs on the missions we had. The big focus was how to build on this unmanned aviation concept. 

What we came up with was setting up a center of excellence for unmanned aviation systems at the University of North Dakota because the John D. Odegard School is the most advanced school of aerospace training in the world. I had a program called Centers of Excellence when I was governor, so we decided to set up a center of excellence for unmanned aviation systems at UND. We did that to build out an ecosystem on the civilian side that could support what the military was doing with unmanned aviation and actually fly UAS in the national airspace. 

Trevor Woods: A fun fact: my entrance into this ecosystem came through that center of excellence. I was hired by Al Palmer, who was the director of the center of excellence at UND at the time. I appreciate the vision you had, because that led me to where I am today. 

Senator John Hoeven: Well, that worked out really well. It worked out good for the state of North Dakota. 

Trevor Woods: As we look now at 2025, we have one of the seven FAA-designated test sites. I might be a little biased, but I think we’re the premier one. What do you think has made us so successful? What has led the federal government and industry to trust North Dakota with this mission? 

Senator John Hoeven: It’s possible someone would say I’m somewhat biased, but ours is the first, and that’s undisputed. It’s also absolutely the best. In 2011, when I went to the Senate, I worked on legislation that required the FAA to allow six test sites. That was the initial legislation we put through. 

The purpose was to develop UAS in the NAS. We had been trying to get FAA approval to fly unmanned aircraft in the national airspace, and the answer was always no. Their mission is safety. By passing that legislation, we said, “No, you have to.” Then they went forward, and we were the first one approved. 

The secret has been partnerships, partnerships, partnerships. We have so many partners I can’t even begin to list them: local, state, federal, government, private industry, civilian, military. We believe in relationships, and for 20 years we’ve been building them. That’s why I think it’s incredible not only what we have now, but what’s possible for the future. 

Trevor Woods: Why is this so important for the country, not just North Dakota? 

Senator John Hoeven: Look at what’s going on globally, especially the war between Russia and Ukraine. Russia has sent in hundreds of drones recently, and Ukraine has been very effective at fighting back. Drones are changing warfare. It used to be tanks rolling out. Now tanks are hiding from drones and other advanced weapons. 

On the Black Sea, there isn’t much fighting even though Ukraine doesn’t have a navy, because drones and autonomous weapon systems have forced the Russian Navy back. It’s absolutely changing the nature of warfare. Then look at the civilian applications. We couldn’t even conceive not that long ago how ubiquitous this would be, and now we’re seeing it with UAS, both drone and counter-drone opportunities and challenges in military and civilian applications. 

Trevor Woods: We’re seeing the clash of those two sides, not only on the defense side as you mentioned, but also on the commercial side. The dual-use benefits of this technology are going to be really relevant. My anecdotal observation is that whatever we do in North Dakota is probably translatable to 70 or 80 percent of the rest of the United States, when you consider the air and ground environment. Maybe we don’t have a New York City in North Dakota, but a lot of what we see here can be extrapolated out and scaled to the rest of the country. 

Senator John Hoeven: Absolutely. And we’re on the border as well, so CBP is one of our key partners. That adds another dimension. 

Trevor Woods: You mentioned partners earlier, and I want to highlight one of them: the state of North Dakota itself, which has continually funded this effort. As you’ve fought this fight at the federal level and brought opportunities to North Dakota, the state side has been another balancing piece. We’ve been fortunate that our legislators at the state level have continued to fund this. The executive branch, including your successors—Dalrymple after you and then Bergum, of course—have continued to champion the mission locally. One of those things was Vantis, infrastructure in North Dakota to enable beyond visual line of sight. I see this as very supplementary to everything you’ve been fighting for. We’ve taken your vision and multiplied it. 

From a federal perspective, how does infrastructure like Vantis help solve the national problem, the defense problem, and the state problem? How does infrastructure at the federal level help with that? 

Senator John Hoeven: Technology always runs ahead of government. Private industry drives technology, and government is always trying to catch up. That’s absolutely true with autonomy and unmanned aviation, both on the military and civilian side. Technology is moving fast, and the FAA is trying to keep up. That’s where the state of North Dakota has been incredible. 

In about 2015, we went to work and got an enhanced use lease from the Air Force, which enabled us to work with Grand Forks County and Grand Forks Air Force Base to set up Grand Sky Technology Park. Grand Sky has brought in some of the foremost aerospace companies in the world, both large and small, incredibly entrepreneurial companies. 

The key is that we’ve got to have the ability for them to fly unmanned aircraft in the airspace in and around North Dakota. Customs and Border Protection does that along the border. To do that, you’ve got to have radars and sense-and-avoid systems. You have to have credibility with the FAA to get the COAs, because of the test site, the incredible record of UND’s John D. Odegard School of Aerospace and Aviation, and the professionalism of your team. The FAA knows you guys are pros and will do it right. 

We’ve been able to translate that into authorities nobody else has. But you have to have the ecosystem. The ecosystem is driven by the technology, and the technology means you need the sense-and-avoid systems and the radars. That’s what Vantis is all about. We have approval to fly large unmanned aircraft in and around Grand Forks because the state of North Dakota invested not only in the infrastructure to create Grand Sky, but also in the test site and in building the radar and sense-and-avoid systems statewide. 

So again, it’s these partners investing in a way that makes people come here because we have the ecosystem, the technology, and the approvals. That doesn’t happen without Vantis and state support. 

Trevor Woods: I agree. And I’m glad you mentioned Grand Sky. Dale Ralston was bought into it. He was my lieutenant governor and then became governor. Bergum was bought into it in a big way, and Kelly Armstrong has jumped on it with both feet. He’s been phenomenal. I want to give big kudos to the governors and the legislators. 

Senator John Hoeven: Yes, those guys deserve huge kudos. And I’d start naming legislators, too, but there are so many of them. Big kudos to the governors and the legislators. 

Trevor Woods: One of the things I’ve observed is that North Dakota really is that one team. We’re a really big small town. We’re able to coordinate with each other, set aside differences, get the job done, and see these opportunities. The legislators have been key in funding this, and the executive branch, including all of our governors and Kelly today, is critical for us to keep moving forward. 

Senator John Hoeven: Mayor Bochanski and Mayor Brown before him, the city council, and the county commissioners all had that vision too. A lot of people have done a lot of hard work and shown a lot of vision. 

Trevor Woods: You mentioned Grand Sky. I’ve done one of these with Tom Sawyer as well. I like to highlight that he focuses on the ground infrastructure, while I focus on the air infrastructure, and that’s why we have such a great relationship. That led to things like Project Ultra, which you’ve been a big champion for. You drive things at the federal level for innovation and regulatory advancement for UAS, and the test site has appreciated that. 

As you reflect on your time as governor and senator, what’s the one thing you’re most proud of in regard to the ecosystem? 

Senator John Hoeven: It’s hard, because what I’m most appreciative of is the incredible partnership we’ve built over a 20-year time frame. That means we’re leading this whole effort with unmanned aviation development, drone and counter-drone work, and all these kinds of things. Project Ultra is going to be key there, and it’s bringing a lot of entrepreneurial companies our way. 

It’s hard to say one thing, because I could go back and say the center of excellence, or the legislation that set up the test site, or getting the enhanced use lease so we could do the tech park, or the work we’ve done with the military, where we now also have the Space Development Agency in there with the whole LEO satellite effort, or TRMC, hypersonics, and the whole Sky Range program. 

So if I had to put it all in one basket, it would be this incredible array of partners and team members. The approach we’ve taken is the key. Success has many fathers, and failure is an orphan, but we’re all working together. That’s what makes us unique and special. I’d wrap it up into that approach. 

Trevor Woods: You said it: this is an overnight success that’s been 20 years in the making. 

Senator John Hoeven: 100%. 

Trevor Woods: There’s no one piece that has made this the critical aspect. It really is all of us working together and grinding through this over time. When others, including some of our federal agencies, have tried to ignore the problem, we’ve tried to push the problem forward and create pathways toward innovation and growth. 

Senator John Hoeven: Exactly. 

Trevor Woods: You’ve mentioned partnerships many times. Why has that collaboration worked so well? What’s the magic to that success? Is it the environment, the funding, the political support? Why have industry and government been able to come together and work on this for 20 years to get to where we are today? 

Senator John Hoeven: I think it’s a couple of things. One is the attitude everybody has had: they want to be a part of it. They recognize that it takes everybody working together and that you need all of these things to make it work. The more we have good relationships, the more other people come and want to develop more good relationships. 

There’s also a little bit of serendipity. If we had said 20 years ago that UAS was going to be the next big thing and it flamed out, all that effort probably wouldn’t have gone anywhere. But in fact, it turned out to be huge. If you think about satellites, they’re unmanned aviation too. 

Now we’re doing Grand Farm down in Fargo thanks to some really creative, amazing people. The third point I’d mention is that we’ve been fortunate to have great people. Tom Sawyer wasn’t even the first choice, but thank goodness we got him because he fit like a hand in a glove. 

Trevor Woods: You mentioned satellites being unmanned systems, and I’m glad you brought that up because I think where this is going goes beyond just the unmanned aircraft itself. We’re seeing advanced air mobility. It’s unmanned aircraft that has grown to the point where we’re moving people, and in North Dakota that matters. Sometimes it can be some long hours on the road. I wouldn’t mind taking a nap while I’m flying somewhere. 

This has really grown bigger than just the unmanned system itself. I think we’re going to see major advancement in aviation where North Dakota can play a key role. You also mentioned Grand Farm, and agriculture is another critical part of the North Dakota economy. Grand Farm with Greg Tevlin is advancing things there too. Do you see other big impacts in the North Dakota economy because of autonomous systems, whether satellites or agriculture? 

Senator John Hoeven: Oh, I think it should be a huge part. We’re going to have a very dynamic future, whether it’s precision ag, aviation and aerospace, national defense, border security, or civilian applications like moving people. Through Project Ultra, we’re now moving various kinds of things from Grand Forks Air Force Base to Cavalier Space Station. We’re doing that once a week. 

We’re moving all kinds of things: blood supplies for the hospital and a lot of other items. Some of it is military, some of it is civilian. We’re going to make it routine. Once we make it routine, we’ll expand the applications, ultimately to moving people, and we’ll expand the ability to do that both in the national airspace and overseas. 

In agriculture, we’re leading the way forward. You can’t do all the applications on the ground without the GPS information you get from aerospace and space. For our military, this is vital for the security of our country. It’s not just at the satellite level where we need the high ground, but in all these systems where we take the bad guys out wherever they are globally. Grand Forks is a huge part of developing that. 

Trevor Woods: You mentioned Representative Mike Nattie earlier. He and several other key legislators have advanced legislation at the state level for investing in non-Chinese-based systems. North Dakota is also leading the way in helping bolster the local supply chain with local companies to bring solutions forward. 

Senator John Hoeven: That’s incredibly important. And again, it’s not just about military technology. It’s about what we’re doing in terms of our farmland and not having other countries control our farmland and our food supply. 

Trevor Woods: This leads into my next question, which is really about national security and economic competitiveness. We touched on it earlier with the Russia-Ukraine war and how that fight is changing things. We know this doesn’t just benefit commercial innovation. Can you elaborate on how North Dakota is helping this nation in terms of economic competitiveness and national security? 

I’ll highlight one thing and then stop: you’ve been a huge champion in bringing members of the federal government to North Dakota to show them what’s actually going on. I think that’s been a huge strategic advantage. People don’t know until they see it. With that strategy in mind, how does North Dakota continue to scale and remain competitive and strategically advantageous for this nation? 

Senator John Hoeven: We have the finest military in the world. It’s all volunteer, with incredible training. Our men and women are absolutely the best, combat-tested for the last 20 years, unfortunately because of the war on terror. 

We need to make sure they always have the best equipment and the best technology, so we have to stay ahead. You know how fast technology moves. You can’t use the old paradigm to develop military technology because they can’t afford it, and the timeline is too long. By the time they develop it, it’s already antiquated. 

We need a new paradigm, and we have one. Project Ultra shows how that works. In this case, it’s a $100 million authorization, and we’ve built this incredible ecosystem. When it comes to drone and counter-drone technology, the military can’t develop that fast enough. Companies are already doing that all the time. 

So now the military can say, “We need drone and counter-drone solutions,” or CBP, law enforcement, or whoever needs the application can come to Grand Forks and find an array of companies that are developing those products. They can show us their specs, and we can show them solutions that fit the parameters. Then we can either co-develop or acquire those systems. 

That shortens the timeframe and reduces the investment risk for the military. It helps us stay ahead of our competitors, and that applies to everything we do from the ground up, including ISR and satellites. Satellites are changing too. These aren’t going to be big multibillion-dollar satellites where if one goes down we’re in trouble. We’re putting up thousands of small satellites in a whole different LEO strategy. 

Trevor Woods: Grand Forks Air Force Base is a key lead in that effort. 

Trevor Woods: What’s next? What do you think the future looks like here? We’re talking about a lot of things happening in real time, but as you look ahead, what’s over the horizon for UAS in North Dakota? 

Senator John Hoeven: You’re going to see more companies continue to come in. We’re talking to them all the time. It’s not just the larger companies like General Atomics, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, and Raytheon. It’s also the smaller entrepreneurial companies developing new products. 

We really need drone and counter-drone solutions right now. We’ve tied into the whole ecosystem, like we talked about in Grand Forks, where with Grand Sky Technology Park and the test site, we can fly manned, unmanned, civilian, or military aircraft all off the same runway. We’re tied into our Air Guard. We’re going to have a data center down there that supplies a lot of this work, particularly for the Sky Range program for the Department of Defense. 

We’re also tying into Camp Grafton with the Army, which has the joint lead for all services on counter-drone. We can’t be shooting down these drones the old way with a Hellfire missile or a .50 caliber machine gun. We have to take them down through directed energy, whether that’s a laser, taking control, causing the system to fail, or best of all using directed energy at a distance. 

Think of our ships too. It’s not just on land. You saw what Ukraine did with Russia in taking out a bunch of their bombers. This is a real and present threat that we’re solving for our military. We haven’t even gotten into all the civilian applications beyond Grand Farm and agriculture, but this stuff is ubiquitous. We’re the place that’s going to develop a lot of these solutions. 

Trevor Woods: Bringing the federal piece into this, we have barriers and constraints with authorities and the ability to test and validate these systems in the United States. You can’t develop a solution in five years and expect it to be ready. We need it now. Because of our ecosystem, we have companies with solutions now that we can test, separate the wheat from the chaff, and find out what really works. Then military or other end users can say, “That’s it. I’ve seen it in the Grand Forks ecosystem, and that’s what we’ll acquire and use.” 

That’s it for my questions. I don’t necessarily see any questions from our audience members who dialed in. I want to take this opportunity to thank you for your time. I know your time is valuable out in DC as you fight the good fight. 

Any last comments for our audience before we close this out? 

Senator John Hoeven: Just appreciation for the incredible partnership and for the great work you and everyone else, the whole team, are doing, along with all the elected officials we talked about. As long as we continue that approach, I think we’ll be successful because we’re in an area with incredible opportunity. We’ve been at it for 20 years, and I think the best is yet to come. 

Trevor Woods: I agree. Thank you, Senator Hoeven, for your time today. I want to thank all of our viewers for tuning in to this special edition of Beyond the Buzz. If you’re interested in learning more, visit the Northern Plains UAS Test Site website and our social media like LinkedIn. Also, I’d encourage you to look at Senator Hoeven’s social media. You broadcast a lot of great announcements and great visits that happen both in the state and at the national level, and I always appreciate looking at that. Until next time, thanks again for tuning in, and we’ll end it here.